Month: March 2002

No Letter

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XCG Silliness

I was reading through some of the UCG materials I grabbed off the web and I came upon a few quotes last night that deserve comment. These all come from a sermon by Les McCullough given on 12 August 2000. The title of the sermon is “Prophecy” — certainly not an uncommon title among the various churches of God.

It may not be exactly as we thought in times past, we’ve talked, someone was saying the other day, I won’t mention names, that they haven’t worried about the beast since Franz Joseph Straus died because some proclaimed very loudly that he was to be the beast. And, of course, I have kidded with people, I had the opportunity to have breakfast with the beast. He never became the beast, but we did have the opportunity of having him visit the campus in Big Sandy and spending time with him and so on. Very interesting man to talk with, but he wasn’t the one. We’ve had various scenarios that we’ve established. It’s not to say that it’s not going to happen, but it may not always happen exactly the way we thought it would.

The most interesting part of that quote comes at the end: “We’ve had various scenarios that we’ve established. It’s not to say that it’s not going to happen, but it may not always happen exactly the way we thought it would.” The question becomes, “At which point do you abandon some particular idea as simply one of the various COG “scenarios” and not infallible Biblical interpretation?” 1975 came and went without a hiccup; HWA died and didn’t rise to meet Christ descending; the WCG, as HWA left it, is no more. When will these people ever say, “Perhaps it’s all just one of our ‘scenario?’” Naturally the answer to that question is “Never.” That would constitute a lack of faith.

Later in the sermon he again dances around the fact that the COG prophecies have been wrong for so long that it should be cause to start doubting them:

We could say, well, we were all wrong and take a look at that over there, and here’s what this was talking about and so on, but the fact is that there is still coming a major force in Europe that is going to become a or the major power in the world, and there is going to be a great price paid.

Once again — “Well, it didn’t happen when we said it would happen, but mark our words: it will happen!” Armstrong himself said something fairly similar. Of course his explanation also included the well-worn notion that “God has given us a little more time.”

So a time of reckoning is drawing near. It’s not going to happen tomorrow, not next year, but progressively it’s going to be coming about. Where are we now? Wouldn’t you like to know? How much time do we have left? When are these things going to come about? God doesn’t give us that knowledge. He says it’s going to happen.

How long are they going to be able to say, “It’s not going to happen tomorrow, not next year?” That’s the amazing thing about Armstrongism, for the answer is almost certainly, “Forever.” Armstrong did it — he created the perpetual motion machine. These people will pass the religion on down to their kids, who in turn will pass it to their kids — always saying, “A time a reckoning is drawing near!”

Concerning Biblical interpretation he says:

Are they really going to come back on white horses? I don’t know that Christ is necessarily obligated to have all the scores that are going to be coming with him strictly on white horses. It’s talking about, it’s symbolic, it’s talking about righteousness, it’s talking about them coming in righteousness. Maybe they’ll come on white horses. We will have to wait and see, but, basically the idea is it’s talking about the purity, it’s talking about the righteousness, it’s talking about the glory of God and coming back in that way. He’s going to come back and establish his rule upon this earth and become the King of all the earth, the King of all the kings of the earth.

Wait a minute! It says right there, in so many words, that there’ll be coming on white horses. Since when does a COG begin using the word “symbolic” regarding Biblical interpretation? That is almost startling. He probably doesn’t even get the implications of what he said.

Lastly, there’s this gem, with which he concludes the sermon:

It’s good to hear the warning. We haven’t done as much about talking about a warning as we did at one time, but the fact is that there is a time coming when this nation is going to be crushed. I don’t like to think about that. You sing “America the Beautiful,” and then you hear these other things, and you really don’t like to think of this great land of ours being destroyed, and crushed, and others coming in and taking over, and the other lands of the world as well. It’s going to happen, we need to be telling people. It’s our job as the people of God to be carrying something of a witness to the rest of the people of the earth, telling them there is a time coming, and you can escape it. You can repent, you can change, and you can be spared and have the opportunity to stand in the Kingdom of God as sons and priests, to teach the rest of the world the way of peace for the very first time.

There it is — all of Armstrongism in a single paragraph. HWA began preaching that nonsense back in the thirties, and now, almost seventy years later people are still believing it, still accepting that theory despite all the evidence against it. It’s just amazing.

Stuff

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More XCG Thoughts

Yesterday was a busy day. At least several things of significance happened. About the LCG message board, I wrote, “I wonder if I’ll get kicked off at some point. I’m sure it’s monitored. I’ll bet Meredith even gets reports about it on some regular basis.” Well, I was close. I didn’t get kicked off in the sense than I as expecting (i.e., account deactivated) but much more thoroughly: my ISP address has been blocked. Not difficult to do since I’m fairly sure I’m the only one accessing the site through Telekomunikacja Polska. I got email notification regarding it, to which of course I have several objections and will address in a reply to be sent today.

What I’m most curious about is whether they’re trying to figure out who I am. It shouldn’t be too hard since they have a few distinguishing facts:

  1. They have my ISP address, which is certainly very unique.
  2. They have my fake email address, which I used in contacting Mr. Kobernat.
  3. They know my father is still an LCE in the WCG.

All they have to do is send a message to all ministers with those facts, and Mr. Kobernat will readily be able to tell them who this joker is. I wonder if it’s gone that far already. And it’s likely they will (or have) do (done) it, for the message I received was CC’ed to Gerald Weston. I remember him from his time in Asheville, and I remember him as being incredibly controlling and something of an asshole.

It makes me laugh to think of the little mystery I’m embroiled in. Or rather, I’m at the heart of.

So I’ve written a letter which I will email today:

Mr. Brian Scarborough,

I appreciate the fact that you took the time to send me a detailed letter explaining your decision. After checking my email and reading your message, I went to the message board out of curiosity to see if you had made mention of my being banned or not. Obviously I was unable to take a look since you’ve banned my IP address. Taking no chances, I see. (As an aside, a simple, “Please don’t post” would have done the trick.)

I apologize for things admittedly getting out of hand. I knew they were, and I was trying to reign things in a little. Too little too late.

However, I would respond to a few of the things you wrote.

To begin with, “You stated on your “Who I am. . .” post that you are interested in who went where and why. I would like to point out to you that many if not most of out teens on the forum were quite young when the split took place, so your desire to collect information on this subject would not be best served on the teen forum.”

I listed that interest as one of the several, as you yourself acknowledged. Furthermore, it’s clear that many of them are old enough to have remembered what happened quite clearly, as they themselves said. Lastly, as you said in one of your own posts, the message board is not solely for “young people.”

“You also stated that you wanted to ‘have meaningful communication with those who are still in the COG’s’. As you can see from the differences in what you believe and what LCG believes, meaningful communication does not seem possible.”

It depends on what “meaningful” means. Still, I guess we’ll never know. I also wrote, “The nonsense I’ve written about interpretation and the existence of God is really of no importance to me. I didn’t begin posting here because I wanted to pick theological fights, and in fact I sort of regret beginning those communications because it has probably biased a few people against me. And such discussions generally accomplish nothing.” The implication I was making, though obviously not strong enough (and clearly it should have been an explication, not an implication), was that I’m not really interested in pursing any those discussions. I even called my own writing “nonsense.” What I should have done is add, “As such, I will not respond to any of those posts unless you actually want to know my point of view on them,” or something along those lines.

“Is it your desire to change the beliefs of our teens?”

Most certainly not. I detest when someone approaches me and says, “Do you know Jesus?” and I wouldn’t do that to someone else. I didn’t initiate the discussion about the existence of God; I was responding to someone’s question. Go back and look at my posts: I never initiated any discussions that could be characterized as inflammatory. yes, I did contribute to them and help them become “inflammatory,” but I didn’t begin a post, “Why on earth does anyone believe in God?!?”

Furthermore, one thing I meant by saying, “And such discussions generally accomplish nothing,” is simply that there would probably be no way I could change anyone’s mind even if I wanted to. I am not Dan Baker, out to convert everyone to “free thinkers.” I was merely expressing my views, and then responding to their responses. I’ve thought about my position for a long time; many of the things they brought up were things I wrestled with on my own. I simply reached a different conclusion than they have.

“Have any of the post made by the teens changed your mind about the existence of God?”

Actually, in a way, yes. I was impressed with some of the articulations and a couple of posts did hit right at one of the weaknesses of an non-theistic stance. As I tried to make clear in one particular post, I don’t have a strong belief that God doesn’t exist; I have no positive belief that God exists. The argument from design (which is basically what all the posts concerned, and that’s why it degenerated into a discussion of evolution) is compelling to me in a strange way, and I readily admit (though perhaps a little too late) that it does make me think that there very well could have been (perhaps I’ll go so far as to say probably was?) some force controlling evolutionary development. A far cry from the nature of God as defined in the LCG’s statement of beliefs, I’m sure, but certainly Madeline O’Hare either.

“I can’t see where this dialogue will help either party.”

Apologetics is not a useful thing? That’s basically what everyone was engaged in. I pointed out weaknesses of arguments; they responded; I pointed out further weaknesses; they responded further. A debate, in other words. And except for one person who seemed to take the notion of evolution very personally, most of them who were participating seemed eager to do so. It was polite; it didn’t (generally) dissolve into personal attacks (and the two times it did, it was fairly moderate, consisting of simply ad hominim arguments, which I calmly explained); it was calm; and it was well-thought out in many instances.

None of my questions were merely exercises in being disagreeable. I also not suggesting that I was “just trying to make sure they were on their toes!” They were genuine inquiries. My statements were not meant as personal assaults, but as presentations of my views.

Re: “to put it bluntly, I think they/you are all wrong”

I fail to see how that’s problematic. I didn’t say, “I think you’re idiots for believing that.” I didn’t say, “I think you’re heads aren’t screwed on tight.” I didn’t use profanity. I was stating, clearly, my position. I wanted no confusion. Perhaps it is a little too strong. I was judging it on my own standard, I guess, and for someone to tell me, “Frankly, I think you’re wrong” bothers me about as much as someone saying, “That’s a nice car.” Ambiguity leads only to problems. I wanted to be clear. That’s all. Clearly, though, I should have put more thought into it.

“I hope that you will not take this decision the wrong way.”

I’m not sure what the right way would be. You simply don’t want me to post, and I certainly understand why. I don’t take that personally, though it is a shame.

In closing, I would like you to reconsider your decision. I am willing to forego any discussions of any topics you deem inappropriate; I am willing to submit any posts to you for pre-approval. If my restriction is the result of requests by users, I understand and comply willingly to the wishes of the majority. If however it was only an administrative decision, I humbly request you to reconsider.

If you are unwilling to allow me to post, please allow me at least to view the message boards. I give you my word that if you ask me to, I will not make a single post, nor will I initiate contact with anyone via email.

In closing, I readily admit things were out of hand; I readily admit that I might have offended some; and I completely understand your position and do not take your actions personally in anyway whatsoever. I would, however, like to ask forgiveness and request a second chance.

I’ve decided to see what a “humble and contrite” spirit will do for me. And I am genuinely saddened that I got kicked off. However, if I’m not allowed back on, it won’t be the end of the world for me. (I’m sure he’ll think, “Man, this guy can’t write a short email to save his life.”)

Interestingly I got email from “Bedbug,” whose real name is Josh, the individual on the board who’d started posting about medical marijuana. He said he’d gotten kicked off several times himself, and that the administrator kicks of anyone who has an opinion. I laughed out loud at that one.

The big event of the day, though, came while playing volleyball with the teachers. I was so frustrated playing with Sojka. During the whole evening he never set me. Always Jacek. It really pissed me off. Next time I will surely say something about it.

Still, that frustration was not the “big event.” As we were playing, who should walk into the gym but Anna Pardynek!!!! I was so thrilled. At first I just waved at her, and then I thought, “I’ve been wanting to see her for ages. Now I finally do and I don’t got and talk to her!? Am I crazy? ‘What will the teachers think?’ Who gives a fuck!” So I ran over and chatted with her. The others on my team (Jola, Sojka, and Jacek) were waiting for me, and I just waved them off with a smile and said, “Grajcie! Grajcie!”

I can’t recall that we really talked about anything of any import. The thrilling thing for me was just getting to see her finally. I regret not being more aggressive, though. I said, “Maybe we’ll meet each other at some point,” when I should have said, “No, I’m not happy with that. I want to plan to meet you,” using the “wy” to keep her boyfriend, who was standing right there, happy. Oh, she mentioned that her boyfriend had also wanted to kill that idiot of hers that all but attacked me in the disco. Perhaps this fellow is a little more mellow and secure with himself.

She was, in some ways, a sad sight, though. Her teeth are absolutely atrocious. It’s pitiful. And she reeked of cigarettes. Lastly, I think she might be pregnant, though I’m not entirely sure. She didn’t say anything about it, and I’m certainly not going to ask. Still, she looked a little plump in all the right places.

So I’ve finally got to see Ann P. I should write Ann P. in Boston to tell her about it . . . and I should have mentioned Ann Petrone to Anna.

Lastly, I wrote a first draft of a letter to Mr. Kobernat. And I was able to get to sleep last night — even make it through most of the day yesterday — without thinking about that nonsense. After all, it’s not the end of the world.

I finished with Sabina’s próbna matura yesterday. She got “dostateczyny,” though just barely (by something like a point and a half). I told her and she was pleasantly surprised. Her biggest problem was the listening, I think. She got all but one wrong in one of the two listening sections.

XCG Thoughts

I am not sure whether I’m being completely naïve in saying that a COG member and a non-COG member (and I’m counting the WCG among them) can actually be friends? I’ve been thinking about that since I received an email from Mr. Kobernat yesterday. More on that in moment. For now —

The COGs define reality in a certain way. They say that Germany is going to rise again; they say that they are going to be God as God is God; they say Christians are required to keep the Sabbath. All these things, while not necessarily originally, are in an original combination. Original packaging, you might say. It places them in the cognitive minority, as I’ve stated so many times in this damn journal. One of the things their worldview has to do is to account for that very fact — if this is the “Bible interpreting the Bible” and it’s all so clear to them, why isn’t it clear to everyone? Why can’t they go to their neighbor, explain the doctrines, show the scriptural backing, and then watch as the neighbor, now fully convinced, picks up the phone to call the local COG minister? That’s something the worldview must explain. “God’s calling” and “worldwide deception” are two ways of doing it — or rather, two sides of the same method. So their unique packaging requires a unique grouping. Yet another way to reach the necessity for plausibility.

My naivety further comes from the thought of my parents and the Kobernats now trying to get together. Imagine the K’s head up north for whatever reason, and as a gesture of good will invite my parents out to dinner. What are they going to talk about now? If they talk theology, it will descend into argument. If they talk about church life, that will certainly lead to a discussion of theology. In my open letter I wrote that the only thing that we shared in common was an assumed mutual belief. Now that I think about it, I’m not sure that anyone ever pretended anything else. It’s not that the Kobernats sought out new friends coming into the Kingsport area and my parents are the ones they happened to find. They were moved there by the organization that defined this unique package of beliefs, which in turn necessitated the creation of a sort of mini-ghetto.

In other words, the WCG brought them together, so that was the first and strongest aspect of their friendship. Now that that’s gone, what the hell would they have to talk about? Grandchildren? My parents, much to Mom’s dismay I’m sure, are not grandparents — a no-go there. World events? Mr. Kobernat sees these world events as fulfillments of prophecy, while Dad doesn’t (I’m assuming). Sports? Dad doesn’t care much for sports, and I don’t think Mr. K. does in and of themselves either. What does that leave them to talk about.

Now, about Mr. K’s response:

Hi Gary, I did respond. To your hotmail address. Didn’t you receive it? It didn’t come back to me making me think it went through. Which address do you like best. I will respond to your answers to my questions as soon as we are sure we are connected.

My first reaction was, “Oh shit — what have I done?!?” I thought I’d jumped to conclusions that were certainly unwarranted. But further thought has made me realize a few things, things which I would like to clear up with him as well.

To begin with, I’m worried that I now appear to be somewhat quick to judge, as if I fired this letter off as a result of one unanswered email. If that were the case, then I certainly would be justly labeled a hot-head. However, this is not an isolated incident. I’ve sent many emails that have gone unheeded, and as my journal shows, it dates back to at least October 1999. That’s almost two and a half years ago. Further, Mr. Kobernat was not the only one not to respond. I sent Brett several emails at one point (though I can’t provide documentation regarding the specific date) and never got so much as a “Howdy” in return. I’d mentioned this to my folks, and they said that they’d had messages go unreturned. Add to this the fact that they went to the Kingsport area several times without even calling my parents.

It seems to me that the chances of all those emails not making it through, and of not a single response back not making it through are slim indeed. Lost email is the exception, not the rule, so even if two or three did get lost, certainly he would have received a few. And of those few, if he’d responded, certainly one or two would have fallen through.

He doesn’t seem like the type of person to lie — I know him well enough to know that he is sincere in his beliefs and wouldn’t consciously go against them. Yet I find it hard to explain his lack of contact any other way than by saying that he simply didn’t respond.

I guess I’ll just have to write some kind of careful reply saying all this. I do, however, stand by the contents of most of the letter. Even if it’s not true in this particular case, it is true in a number of cases. Though as I’ve pointed out, that seems to me now to be somewhat inevitable.

Despite all this — damn, I feel stupid. I emailed my folks asking them what to do. I chatted with Chhavi (via MSN) asking her what to do. And I even talked to Mamo about it. “You didn’t kill anyone,” was her response, “So it can’t be that bad.”

XCG Discovery

I found tonight the most interesting thing: a message board for young people from the Living Church of God. And I was able easily enough to get a membership and begin posting! Surprisingly easy access for something linked to a church of God. With its closed-door policy, the LCG has left a big open door on the internet.

I was thinking about this, though, and it’s certainly a different experience being in a CoG today as compared to when I was attending in Kingsport. “Dissident literature” was some vague, nebulous bunch of booklets and pamphlets floating around out there, as difficult to get as narcotics. Just as you can’t walk up to anyone on the street and try to buy pot, you couldn’t walk up to any church member and say, “Hey, have you got any Dissident Literature?” I remember thinking I’d found some downstairs in Dad’s library one time — it was almost like finding the ark. “It does exist after all!” was almost what I was thinking. But now, one only has to log on and in a matter of minutes you can find all the “dissident literature” you want.

I wonder if I’ll get kicked off at some point. I’m sure it’s monitored. I’ll bet Meredith even gets reports about it on some regular basis.

Various

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Lost Loves

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